Curse

B Ephekt · Jan 04, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

a perfect spike with invoke hitting up to 3 targets at once is not infusable.

If you're stupid enough to ball up against an aoe spike then you deserve to lose, plain and simple.

Loot Junkie · Jan 04, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Anyone who thinks that IWAY and spike teams are going to overpower every other possible build in an 8v8 version of HA hasn't done their homework concerning Nightfall skills, or the skills from the previous 2 chapters for that matter. I mean, even Power Block will cut through resolve. How do you feel about having your main offensive attribute unavailable for 16 seconds? Kind of a sitting duck now lol. But seriously bhavv, there are a bunch of new skills that havent been tried and proven in HA yet because of the limitations imposed by the new 6v6 format. Having HA restored to its former 8v8 format will allow the opportunity to experiment with skills that we are forced to leave out due to the current "buildwars" situation.

warriorsmiley · Jan 04, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

What the OP fails to see is when FOTM appear and affect the metagame many people just play counters to it because it will be about 80% of the builds you face. Also if you dont remember air spike was huge before the change to chain lightening(which was probable better then invoke) and anet saw how over powered it was and they changed it. If air spike or even searing flame becomes big dont you think monks will be mo/mes and having maybe elemental resistance or even the mantra for the popular element. Also you fail to realize that alot of spike teams have little or no defense at all they have to kill you before you even get a chance to move in on them or they lost the match. The spikes that have huge amounts of defense if they dont get key kills fast and you start to pressure them they have to play pure defensively and if they doing that they arent killing you now are they?

If your going to start a thread to make a point please make it other wise your just wasting time. Spikes have been running around long before 6v6 and they werent overpowered annoying but not overpowered. I have played in my share of spike teams and balanced team during my time in HA and I would say a majority of the time my team held halls I was in a balanced build so saying balance builds never hold halls is just a plain lie.

SideNote:Please dont take second hand information get excited and decide to write about it on here. Its obvious you have little if no experience in HA because any semi compentent HA player will know a spike builds needs a followup thats at most a 1 second cast time and a 2second cast skill isnt a followup Invoke Lightening followed by Lightening Orb is a joke 4 second spike GG.

Alleji · Jan 04, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I'll probably get flamed for this, but dont really care. I would NOT like to see 8v8 returned because:

7x blood spike necros

Yeah, it's called blood spike. Also with 6 necros and 5 necros. It's good, but not overpowered.

Quote:

6x Evicerate

Lol. 4x Eviscerate W/R's that like to avenge their pets will come back probably, but 6? No.

Quote:

8x Signet of Mystic Wrath

SoMW is trash. Avatar of Grenth + Infuser = owned. OoA = owned, no questions asked. And any spike will outspike it because SoMW has the slowest recharge there.

Quote:

6-8x Invoke Lightning

4x Invoke Lightning is enough to drop most targets. 5 to make sure. Yeah, airspike would probably make a comeback and invoke would be like the old chain (although less aoe), with one major difference: eles don't have their elite slot. Therefore it's weaker... and old air spike wouldn't be that great of a build in current meta anyway. People got a lot better.

Quote:

6-8x Searing flames

SF is dead right now, what makes you think it'll come back? Besides, it'll probably get nerfed.

Quote:

6-8x Spiritual pain

Spiritual pain *will* get nerfed.

In conclusion, you're wrong. Bai.

EDIT: You also have no clue what you're talking about in terms of spike power. Nobody ever uses 8 out of 8 slots on spiking: that leaves you defenseless. A typical spike build has 4-5 slots dedicated to spike, 3 monks and 1 some kind of other support role. Most of the examples you mentioned have 1000+ damage in their spike, which is completely ridiculous overkill.

Lord Mendes · Jan 04, 2007, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I ran a build very similar to this one in the 8v8 nightfall preview event (best time I ever had in HA

).
5 spikers and a 3 monk backline is all you need, and having a phantom pain + shatter is better than the last spiritual pain.
Though spirital pain will probably get nerfed, so we will have to wait and see.

Cass · Jan 04, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

We had 8v8 before, and of course there were pure spike builds, but they were not dominating everything. They have weaknesses that are not compensated for by their ability to kill single targets quickly. Some people already mentioned you need utility to defend the hero or to run a relic.

It may be that the nightfall skills bring added power to some builds, but with most of the skills that result in big yellow numbers Anet has taken nerfing action in the past. In fact, it may be the fast 8v8 environment of HA that will help to speed up skill balancing, as it is well suited to demonstrating the raw power of such skills.

Julen · Jan 04, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Did you ever see chain lightning spike before it got nerfed?

I did, but i doubt you did, or did it really take you over a year to go from r0 to r5?

qvtkc · Jan 04, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

headbutt spike would pwn 8v8 T_T

Bastian · Jan 04, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

*Ward of stability*. The chances of interupting 2 of them with knockdowns before they cast is quite slim.

And the idea of these builds as always is to destroy the oposition before they can do anything, which is very likely to happen.

Wards are just a great target for Aoe Damge, Trappers, etc...

If you think the wards are going to save you, then stay in them. Watch as you spike 1 maybe 2 people and then all die as a team...

Sophitia Leafblade · Jan 04, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Replace Elite with Echo and Replace another skill with Mind Wrack and walla. 1 person casts mind wrack, all echo cast Energy Burn and u have a killer of a spike

jana_the_stranger · Jan 04, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Oh, and please bring back heroes in heroes ascent. Thank you.

haha haha haha haha

WE ARE THE HEROES not the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing "hero's"

Thomas.knbk · Jan 04, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Replace Elite with Echo and Replace another skill with Mind Wrack and walla. 1 person casts mind wrack, all echo cast Energy Burn and u have a killer of a spike

Echo Eburn? destroying 96 energy? Not needed is it? Echo SP please

lishi · Jan 04, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I'll probably get flamed for this, but dont really care. I would NOT like to see 8v8 returned because:

7x blood spike necros
6x Evicerate
8x Signet of Mystic Wrath
6-8x Invoke Lightning
6-8x Searing flames
6-8x Spiritual pain

Heres a couple of examples of these ridiculously overpowered builds (Just been done VERY quickly as an example):

No you cannot interupt the stability through resolve TY.

And also Diversion and backfire are easilly counterable with the divert hexes. Call it, it gets removed.

Ok, you could maybe use an extra monk for healing. The insane amount of extra damage the 8 man spike teams would deal would still overpower the extra monk.

Your saying that this isnt a problem because these builds can still be run in 6 man teams? If so 90% of teams still require 2 monks to stay alive, so that leaves 4 spaces....

4x Searing Flame (currently overused) = 476 damage in one hit at the most.
4x Invoke lightning = 424-560 damage (based on AP)
6x Mystic sig = 700ish damage.

Now add an extra two to those figures and tell me how many super monks there are that could infuse or heal up that much damage.

Current FOTM's are no where near as bad as the 8 team FOTM's.

And the reason there are so many less people playing HA nowadays is because blood spike, ranger spike, IWAY and Vimway dont work anymore. Good riddance to you, I much prefer HA in its current state.

Oh, and please bring back heroes in heroes ascent. Thank you.

i wont bash on the build you posted becouse many aready did.

lets go on the hot point.

YES there will may some overpowered build in 8v8 who will be hard to beat and counter. There was on 6v6 as well (even if i didnt played during that time). And if a skill is overpowered in 6v6 it will likely overpowered in 8v8 as well.(this not always if you have a valid counter)

some of us (the one who want 8v8) probably will post here and cry
- OMG NERF XXX( if they dont have patience

)
or
- I think xxx is overpowered for those yyy reason so i think anet should fix that (if they are more relaxed people)

but guess what this happen in 6v6 as well and dont forget skill balance are made to fix those issue

You just got tomahawked · Jan 05, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

my only advise is this.

if your spike builds can confidently answer each and every problem i have identified in my first reply to your post... then yes i think you will have found the uber imbalanced 8vs8 build of doom.

unless you can address those problems i found... and you would have to address at least 75% of them. There really isnt any discussion needed. Running a successful and imbalanced spike build in HA/Tombs is so much more complicated than bringing enough dmg to kill something.

let me add some more problems

14) How will you camp wards against teams with AoE? Sandstorm or savannah heat or even a dervish will make wards a liability. But the second you leave the wards your spike become too easy to disrupt.
15) Ok lets say im having difficulty killing you in the wards... wat do i do? i let you kill someone in the ward and up goes well of profane... goodbye air attunement.. hello exhaustion.
16) what do you do against dual mes builds with 2 enchant removals each? Thats enought to strip 2 off your air ele attunes constantly...its probably enough to keep air attune off 4 of your air eles.
17) im thinking that hard rez might make its way into HA if it goes back to 8vs8... in that case... how do you propose to wipe an enemy team if all you can manage is to kill them 1 at a time. And trust me... you wont be spiking 3 people if you face a good team.

until you can present a working build... plz dont cry imba build! cos currently the build you have is just nothing to be scared of. And nothing you have said so far demonstrates that you have the knowledge and experience to back up your claims.

simply saying BUT I HAVE ENOUGH DMG TO KILL THREE PEOPLE IN A PERFECT SPIKE...

just doesnt cut it

Dude he was using those builds as examples not actual builds. He was just trying to get his point acroos not propose a FotM or anything.

We had HA with 8v8 before for a long time before and nobody complained but as soon as it went to 6v6 people without a flame shlied spontaniously (<--spelled wrong) combusted. So my opinion is bring back 8v8 and just have regualr skill balancing.

Demoon · Jan 05, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

If we do go back to 8v8, the normal 3 monk backline will most likely come back, and/or evolve with some of the new elites introduced in NF. However one of the most popular builds would be that SB/infuse you should probably be familiar with since you've played with it.

What's the elite on that monk again? SB, explain how either of your builds is going to spike through SB. Also you do realize that there are these two handy skills that most monks use as of now, which are PS and the other SB, Spirit Bond. Both of which will kill your awful ele spike, and potentially slow up your mesmer spike.

Again you have 6 eles and your only defense is 6 wards, only 1 of which being melee, meaning that any heavy melee build, IWAY for example, will steamroll your build. As for the mesmer build you have absolutely no defense.

Dragonious · Jan 05, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Please go back to PvE full time with a side of alliance battles

The Real Roy Keane · Jan 05, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

To the OP, I'd be far more worried about eight man IWAY and Zergway than the potential spike builds that 8v8 would bring.

FoxBat · Jan 05, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

It sucks for the balanced players, but rock-paper-scissors is the only way you will see any diversity of FotMs. If you remove player skill from the equation, that's the only way you would ever see any build diversity at all, because it's about impossible to have all skill combinations function the same in every environment versus every team, "best" ones will emerge unless they have weaknesses.

Otherwise, its all IWAY for fame farmers, all blood spike for holders. Or probably 2 new FotMs with NF skills in these same roles if the same old HA were reverted to 8v8, assuming that 8v8 would still remove all RPS as some claim.

pigdestroyer · Jan 05, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

I can foresee, really defensive paragon spikes, new Iway with steady stance and more spirit spamming builds

Bankai · Jan 05, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

And all those things sound much better than SF and Spirit spamming, to be honest.

Besides, I think invoke lightning spike sucks. I target an ele, see him using invoke lightning (2 second cast), see some guys falling down (eles, that is), I hover my finger over spirit bond, wait a second, look at my party list, leisurely select the target, spirit bond, ZB.